THE BEAST

Sal Abruscato - Interviewed By Zachary Moonshine from The Zach Moonshine Show on Metal Devastation Radio .

Transcribed by Podium

Zach Moonshine:
Hello Sal?

Sal Abruscato:
Hey, sorry about that. What's going on, man? I was on my iPad, I thought I could answer it with my iPad. How's it going, Zach? 

Zach Moonshine
dude, we're doing great man Fuckin'. We just got done blasting “ Christian Woman ”. Fuckin' oh my god, oh my god, dude… Like that. You know what? I haven't listened to that in a little while and that really took me back, man. 

Sal Abruscato
I haven't listened to it myself in a long time. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, you know what the drums in that shit are, fucking insane dud! I know I told you this the last time you were on the show. Man, your fucking drums sound great though, dude, but like when I listened to it, man, that fucking snare! Dude the way it snaps, fuck man. 

Sal Abruscato
We worked on it for days. It was two days of getting drum sounds for that record and the snare drum was a brass eight-inch deep Pearl free floater snare that I had used on all those records back then. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, you guys always had a good fucking drum sound, man! I mean, the whole band sounded great. You know, those records are just classic man. Amazing fucking shit, dude. 

Sal Abruscato
Those were organic records. You know, those were records that we actually tracked, you know, did scratch tracks, did the bass and drums, and then the guitars would be redone and then the vocals and keyboards and all that stuff. Those records, up until Bloody Kisses , were organic records, along with the samples. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, I could definitely tell a difference when they did October Rust , and I mean there were some good songs on that one too, but it was nothing like. I don't know, man, for me personally, those first three will always be my favorites. 

Sal Abruscato
You want to know something funny. October Rust , I will say, has great songs and a lot of those riffs were actually jammed in a room when I was in the band. He would sometimes just start playing a riff and I would just goof along with him and a lot of those riffs ended up being in some of those songs. The issue was that it was no longer live drums or a live groove, and that's where the sterilization took over and it was, you know, programmed drums. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, man. Well, tell us, dude, I know I've seen you. You've been on Facebook. You know you're all over the place on Blabbermouth and all these motherfuckers. Tell us, man, what the fuck is going on, dude, what happened man? 

Sal Abruscato
This is an ongoing. You want to know something that's been going on since I left Life of Agony . You know, as usual. You know I was notified about this and I go and I look and you know it said that you know this whole big 30-year issue reissue and you know drums by Johnny Kelly and I was like, well, that's incorrect, what's going on? 

And I immediately, immediately texted Josh and I immediately texted Johnny and I was like, what's this all about? And they both acted kind of like they didn't know what was going on. And actually Johnny was like, do you think I have anything to do with this? But then, lo and behold, I saw that the person that was in charge of the layout, the artwork thing and the whole, like they decided I guess I don't know who decides these things Obviously not Peter, because he's no longer around. Alan Robert, bassist of Life of Agony , pretty much did almost all the artwork like 99% of it and I guess he was art director and all that good stuff and he was in charge of it. 

Now, when you go to that camp, that camp's been pretty much consistently interfering and doing everything they can to prevent me from doing anything musical or working with anyone musical, and they basically did everything they could to cancel me, starting with like probably one of the most horrendous tweets that the singer of that band could have ever made to their 30-something thousand followers back in 2018, claiming that I was, you know, the homophobe , transphobe , all these crazy accusations. And then I was like, well, I'm now waiting for a parade of people with torches to show up at my residence that I lived in prior to here, because, you know, these days when you make a statement like that, you know, people out there sometimes want to impress people. And I was sleeping with a shotgun right next to my pillow, you know, I just didn't know what to expect. And they, immediately when that tweet went out, again a fan told me about that and I have the image capture I can always send it to you. A fan said to me he said, “Sal, you're not going to believe what's going on.” And this person you know, the singer of said band, puts out a tweet about me and just crushes me. And they've been a shadow ban doing everything they can in the industry too. You know, tell people not to work with me because, all of a sudden, people that worked with me stopped working with me. 

You know, what's interesting is that once I realized he was involved in the artwork, Alan Robert , I was like, well, there you go. That makes perfect sense. He had a hand in making sure he drew and did all the artwork. And they didn't have I don't think they have imagery, any imagery from the original layout. No one ever called me back about this. Not one person from the band called me up to like, to straighten it out. I did have a phone call from, I guess, one of the owners of Z2 Comics . He calls my number on a Sunday night. First of all, I don't know who this is and I don't answer numbers, I don't know and he's calling on a Sunday night, which isn't even a business night, and he's like I'm trying to clear the air. And because the backlash from all the OG type of fans has been so unreal, I actually have been so humbled by the comments I see on their posts and the hashtags that are going around like # NOSALNOSALE , and just there's another one. 

Zach there's another one going around called just hashtag # justiceforsal Dude. I'm fucking. This is funny, but at the same time it's heartwarming because I didn't expect that kind of outpouring from the fans. And the fans have given them a lot of backlash, to the point where they had to take down one of their sponsored advertisements for the reissue. They eliminate all the 100 negative comments and then they put up a new one and there's now like 80 something negative comments again. Like just just, they're really people also, I think the balls to charge the kind of money that they were charging. Like I can't believe, like somebody. You know that Repulsion tape. 

Again, that's the demo that I'm playing on. You know, from day one. That's actually the “ Slow, Deep and Hard ” record, just the original mix really, and you know the audacity that they I don't know somebody found a few of them and they charged 600 and something dollars and you know they're putting out fucking guitar pedals that sound like you know, fucking boss pedals and shit it. It's just becoming a little too obvious that you're really trying to monetize things, which is okay, I know everyone needs to make a living, but I just, all I really raged about was my credit. I played on that record. 

I worked hard, I did all the groundwork in that band and you know, the funny thing is is like when I was texting back and forth with Josh Silver, you know he was like well, but you quit the band. I'm like quit the band, regardless. My performance is being repeated over and over and over and now you're giving someone else credit, as if they sat in a room with Peter and worked on that shit. Are you shitting me? And it got pretty ugly and that's when I raged and I was so it was a culmination like I know I had a few close friends of mine say Sal, that video puts you in a bad light because it doesn't seem professional and things like that. I get it. You know the world is so filtered. 

Zach Moonshine:
Which video are you referring to? 

Sal Abruscato:
This video that you know I raged on. I raged on my Facebook page. 

Zach Moonshine
Oh, okay, okay. 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, but then this news site called “ lambgoat ” goes ahead and fucking copies it, you know, with their camera watching my page. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah. 

Sal Abruscato
So they. They then re-put it out, and then “ Metal Sucks ” took it on and a few of these news sites took it on, which kind of brought a lot of people out into more defense for me, I guess. But the problem is, like you know, the world's not used to anyone not filtering their emotions and I was just truly upset. I just had it. I was like, look, after years of the like, “Life of Agony” puts out a movie called Sound whatever Documentary Sound of Skars movie. They intentionally left me out of it and they brought in other people that were part of the whatever, whether it was crew people or this or that. And here I was, another monumental figure that had a big hand in not only playing River Runs Red, but I learned that material in three weeks, executed It. I dealt with all the rearrangements and the rewriting of the drums. But then when I did join that band I ended up becoming Mr Tour Manager, Mr Merchandise Guy, Mr Advanced to Shows, booked the hotels, drove them across the country. It just turned into, like you know, I was the oldest one in the band so it was kind of, I guess I was like the big brother and I did a lot for that band. So to discount me regardless of whatever disagreement we had at the end when we parted, that's another situation that to disregard my participation and involvement in all that business is completely unfair and disgusting to any OG fan that knows the history. 

So then, to watch this buffoon, then go and put his hands into the Type O Negative legacy because they all knew that was, it was very obvious that it still was, to date, always the biggest record I ever played on Bloody Kisses . It was the most successful record, right, and it sold the most out of the band's catalog. So for him to get involved in that and for the band to allow that and then to intentionally just do all this new cartoon artwork, you know, and it's like the new fans that get into the band now will not know who really played on that record. You know, that was my whole point and it was just a big. It's just a big “to do” and you got people that tried to snuff it. But all the fans are yelling about it. 

You know, I actually was blocked for a day from Blabbermouth 's Facebook page. 

Zach Moonshine:
Really?

Sal Abruscato:
Yeah, man. I guess they were worried about me freaking. I guess people were rambling on their post over there. I didn't. You know, they got in trouble, not in trouble, but they were contacted right away to re-edit the article and change the name to Drums by Sal Abruscato. But that wasn't good enough in my book, because what it was was. That was an actual press release that went out. So there were other news sites stating the 30-year reissue, all this news about the artwork and Drums by Johnny Kelly. So I was like, yeah, okay, well, Blabbermouth, you know, fixed it, whoop-de-doo, I don't get. 

But the actual record itself is a total diss to me. You're discounting a member that actually put the work in and actually played on the record. You know, and that's the problem. It's not about money, Zach. I was playing ball all these years so long as I got my due diligence, my credit and the world knew that it was the records I did on and that I was responsible for co-founding that band. Had I not gone to Peter's house and rang his fucking doorbell and his dad let me in and go downstairs like I love the audacity of these New Age-Type-O fans that try to question me and say well, how do you know Peter wouldn't like it? How do you know he wouldn't be into this? How do you know? Who are you? You're like these stupid. I don't know what age these people are. 

Zach Moonshine
You ought to know better than anybody. 

Sal Abruscato
I have only known him since 84. Johnny and Kenny didn't know him from a hole in a wall. The only other guy that knew him was Josh, because they lived on the same block and played in a band together before Carnivore called Fallout. That was it. So this is the thing that these guys go around discounting. But I'll tell you right now the fact that the band had a couple of sandbags that did nothing but whine and cry all the time and needed to work all the time and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

And you want to know something had people been real friends of Peter and looked out for him, Maybe he would have been alive today. Instead of encouraging this kind of bullshit environment backstage and encouraging this type of behavior of excessive abuse and use of all kinds of sorts of stuff, Maybe he'd be alive right now. You know, I mean he had other stuff going on that might have taken him young also, but still, you know that guy started doing all his wacky new stuff at the age of 35. He was such a late bloomer and he was just encouraged by, like, so-called friends. There's shit, Zach, that I know. I know shit about every dude that. That. That's why I've been hushed. That's why I'm silenced all the time. I am like no different than what they're doing to someone. Politically, you know. But in the music world I've had DJs flat out refuse to play my last two records from A Pale Horse Named Death . 

Because of this insane stuff that you know, people go around saying, well, he's a transphobe . He's a transphobe , you know, because they labeled me a transphobe , you know, and all this other bullshit. No, I'm just the father of three girls. Kiss my ass, All right With this nonsense. I don't. That wasn't it. 

The problem is the band changed so much that it wasn't what it was. It wasn't what it was anymore and it really got off track for me. And you know I don't want to really get into that stuff too deep. But you know this is a culmination of a lot of bad things done to me. And you know, for someone that has like whatever credibility that I have as a drummer, you 'd be surprised how hard it is to get a gig. You know, because I've been labeled these things by various people. And now, now you have Type O Negative that has jumped on this train and they went along with it too and they said, oh, he ain't, he ain't gonna say nothing, he's not gonna say nothing if we leave

Zach Moonshine
So, so, basically, what you're saying is the industry is trying to cancel you. 

Sal Abruscato
Well, yeah, let's say let's, let's. Let's put it this way you know, when I was dealing, when, when I released the first album after I was out of Life of Agony for which was and when the world becomes undone in 2018, Jose Mangin of Liquid Metal , he’s good friends with you know, the guys in Life of Agony, all of a sudden, like the prior record I released, Lay My Soul To Waste was, like you know, devil's dozen. The first record I had out was doing great. All of a sudden, you know, when I was talking to the radio marketing guy saying, well, why isn't Liquid Metal picking it up? I don't know, dude, he's not responding. I don't know, he's not getting back to me. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, dude, everybody else's garbage, because you know when it when, when a label's paying a radio marketing guy, pretty much all these people are going to at least spin the record a couple of times. Right, it just is just how it goes. You know, and and and. If it sticks, it sticks, if it doesn't, it doesn't. So that was that record and I was scratching my head like, well, maybe he just didn't fucking like it and I'll respect that. 

Well, then I released another record. Same thing happens, right? Same thing happens with Jose Mangin . I released “ Infernum In Terra ” on SPV Records, Long Branch Records. Who's like the only people in the industry that sees past all this shit and still believes in me if I, if I want to continue. And the last record didn't get and people were requesting it and people, you know they. He didn't play it, but here is the. Here is the real kicker. Zach, I don't know if you knew, but I was working like I worked in a project called Die Humane . 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, yeah with the Exodus guitarist?

Sal Abruscato
Rick with Rick Hunolt . 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, okay All right. 

Sal Abruscato
Guess what, that man, who was completely innocent, started suffering the fatigue of all that stuff. Because when they hired a radio marketing company that I will not name the guy, the owner of that company calls me and says dude, you know, I'm going to try, like hopefully, I'm going to try and get him to play it. Hopefully Jose doesn't know you're in the band, but I'll tell you right now, if he knows you're in the band, he's not going to play on a record, wow. And I'm like wow, well, that sucks. These kids, these kids got nothing to do with anything. I mean, they're not part of any of his drama between me and LOA . 

All I did was play fucking drums on their record. You know, that's all I did. I was, I was pretty much like it was almost like a hired gun type of thing, but I didn't get paid. You know, I got fucking noticed. That's why I'm not working with them anymore. So you know I felt bad for those guys and I was just like, well, if you guys are going to get targeted like this, I don't think I could be in this band. I'm only going to take you down like a Led Zeppelin . You know, it's like it seems like it seems like no one wants to work with me now. And the same thing happened where I was trying to get a hold of Tommy Victor-Prong because he needed a drummer. I love Prong ! 

You know, when Ted was in the band, like I toured with them when they did their Cleansing record and I would have loved to play with Tommy and Prong, but you know, because that dude was on a tour opening up for LOA in Europe, you know Michael's got got unanswered and I was trying to get through to him through a friend of mine, Jason Bittner, who was actually a temporary guy on the tour in Europe months ago. So like I've tried to approach C.O.C who needed a drummer, you know. So I think I have the qualifications to still remain in the professional life, but unfortunately I can't really continue because, you know, daddy's got to keep the bread and butter flowing somehow and what's. I've been battling an uphill battle. That's kind of why it's taken me so long to even muster up wanting to do a record, even though I've been offered an extension on my contract from Long Branch SPV. 

You know they've always been supportive, but how do I? You know there's a lot of this nonsense going on that just isn't letting me get shit done and it's very frustrating, and so that's that's where we're at. So when you see something like the Type O situation happened, I'm just like, fuck this. You know what you fuckers, you know everyone wants to do this to me. I got nothing left to lose. I'm going to go off on people now. Now I'm going to go off on people and what happens, happens, you know. 

Zach Moonshine
Well, let me, let me ask you, man like, why are these people calling you a transphobe and all this shit? Man Like, where the fuck did that come from? 

Sal Abruscato
It came from, because I actually had a little. I had an issue being a father of three females. The situation was where it all started. My last show with that band was in Irvine, California, on the Knotfest. And you know I don't have a problem with, for example, homosexuals. I lived in the village for about five years in the late nineties, literally blocks away from you know it was all homosexual that neighborhood and never had a problem. 

But my problem is I have a problem with men who dress like women, who still want to be with women and use the women's restroom. That's where I have a fucking problem and for some reason people want to like go off on me and call me all this shit, because I think it's not right for a man with a penis to dress like a woman but still go and fuck this shit. And I have a problem with men that have dates with women and go and use women's restrooms in airports and hotels you follow? So I was watching this shit on tour. I was watching this happen and then I'm sitting in the catering hall backstage at Knottfest in California and there's a young minor what looked like she was a minor female working in the catering area where all these fucking rock star bands are hanging out eating and making a mess and this girl's going around, cute girl going around cleaning tables. Often she happened to have leather pants. And when you're sitting with someone that is a guy, that has tits, that claims to be a woman but has a dick, and is now Oogling saying how they want to fuck this girl that looks like she's 17 or 16, me being the father of three girls I was like in my head, I was like enough is enough with this fucking shit. This band has become something that I don't care about. And that's what it was. 

It became a movement and I'm not part of it. I don't want to be part of the movement. It doesn't mean I don't like anybody or I have ill will towards anybody. It's just that, people, you know, it's just that's how I feel and I have respect for humanity. I have respect for anyone's choices, but you know, leave kids out of it. 

And if you want to dress up like a woman and go with men, that's fantastic. You know what I mean. Like that's okay, that's cool. If you're a dude and you want to go with guys and you want to be a woman, that is perfectly fine in my book, but if you are the other way and it's just some kind of ploy of some kind of game and some kind of freak show thing of, I can't go with that and anyone that thinks that's okay, all right, good for you. But don't hang me on the cross, for my feelings I keep them to myself. I don't preach, I don't post. So that's what it was. But even more, Zach, I got an even better Achilles heel to the year 2017. Are you still there? 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, yeah, I'm listening man. 

Sal Abruscato
All right, I'm the father of a catastrophically disabled child and that year I had to leave twice. In 2017 that was leading up to this demise. I had to leave twice on tour while my wife was in the hospital with my daughter, where she was going through serious surgeries bilateral osteotomies, which is cutting through the femur on both sides and relocating how the bones go into the hips, and she's also been through two corneal transplants in each eye, which comes from a deceased donor so I had to leave twice. I was at the airport with these clowns while my wife was at Presbyterian in Manhattan and I was very depressed. I felt so guilty. Where I am, schmucko, acting like a kid, going to play some shows in Europe with these clowns that are jumping up and down like that. They're so happy to go on tour. Good for you, but my wife's all the way in the city by herself with no help at all. And I had another daughter. 

My wife was pregnant that year, also with our third daughter while doing all of this, and these guys were going through a midlife crisis. The other two guys, Joey and Al, were not going through a midlife crisis, so all my crutches were hanging them down. I was too much of a bore. I had too many serious problems going on in life and they wanted to be like. They all of a sudden wanted to be on the road 24 seven and I was like what are you nuts? I mean, we're not going to make much money. Why don't we just cherry pick and just do what we've been doing for years and do all the other stuff that we do? So it was becoming a situation where they wanted to also go tour, tour, tour a lot, which is what they've been doing, but they work more for less now. And I was going through that year a lot emotionally because I'm telling you, we're a unique family, we're a special needs family and what my wife's gone through and what I've gone through to try to keep things together with that situation, this is quite challenging, would be challenging for any family really, or couple. So I had that going on too. So when I want, when I had to deal with this other monkey business, to be honest with you, Zach, you know at that point you know you're already like, so deflated with all this stuff going on in your life, and then the year prior to that I had broke my clavicle and I had to cancel a tour and there was just a lot of stuff going on and I was still there doing my commitments and doing what I had to do. 

But then I had to deal with this three ring circus where we had to live in terror every day, in the spirit of van, because this person was taking such strong hormonal medication that you didn't know if they were going to come in the van from the hotel nice or grinding their teeth, that they were going to, like you know, murder someone. And we were always on. I was. We were living on eggshells every morning, waiting in the van to leave from the hotel to go to the next gig. We were like, oh, one of them. What's it going to be like today? Is she going to cry, is she going to scream, is she going to laugh, is she going to wait? It was a. It was like living in a nuthouse, because these drugs change people so much. And again, I knew this person from so long. It's very hard for someone you know for 20, 30 years. And then now you got to look at him this way and deal with these insane roller coaster rides emotionally. It was just too much and that's, that was it, and that was fine. And then they just decided to crush me all together, you know, and just just do everything they could after that to prevent me from even just doing my stupid little band and doing some shows. 

And I've had agents turn on me, I've had promoters turn on me, I've had fans turn on me, everyone just saying you know, you're a fucking bigot, fucking this, that, that, that that I'm like. Excuse me, I'm a city kid that went to a multi diverse school in Brooklyn, New York, in the seventies and eighties. You can suck my ass, you know, like you guys are way too soft from where I came from and I grew up working in the city. Do not call me racist, because I can hang with the best of them and the worst of them, and if you're a piece of shit, I don't care. Like I said in the type over the Type O Negative video, I'm not racist. 

I hate everyone, you know, and if you're a piece of shit, you're a piece of shit. It doesn't matter what color you are, you know and that's it. So that's, that's the deal, Zach, there's a lot of I've had a lot of adversaries behind the scenes because I've always just been a musical threat and I've always been a threat with a lot of knowledge about things that have happened in the past, that I could tell stories, and everyone says I should write a book. I don't know when I'll get around to that, though my rants were genuine and they were true and real, and that's why no one could even call me back. Not one dude, not Josh, not. Nobody could straighten it out, so that just tells me everything. 

Zach Moonshine
I can't believe, though, that they would leave your name off the fucking, off the record, take your picture out of it and everything, like I mean, like what the fuck?

Sal Abruscato
That's totally wrong. That's totally wrong. 

Zach Moonshine
That's crazy, dude. 

Sal Abruscato
The original picture on the back of that record. It's, it's, I'm actually in the front in the middle. 

Zach Moonshine:
Yeah, yeah, I know I remember.

Sal Abruscato:
And, I was surprised, even I was actually surprised because I thought, well, Pete should be in the front. I'm just a fucking drummer man, you know. But that, regardless of whatever happened, you know like to this day, I'm always super proud of what I accomplished. I mean, I had a look, I had a lot of balls when I was a kid and it took a lot of balls just to ring Pete's doorbell. I was friendly with him because I was hanging out with him a lot, because Louis, who was my, he lived up the block from me. He was the drummer Carnivore he was. He was also giving me drum lessons and he would take me to rehearsals and they were rehearsing when Keith Alexander was in the band, before they even signed for the first record of Carnivore . They were rehearsing in Peter's basement of his parents' house, the very same house he lived in up until the very end that they, you know, pushed him out of it. You know, if his parents died, they were rehearsing. You know, that's how far back I go with that guy. I knew his first wife that nobody even knows about. You know, like I know these guys so far back that when these Type O knuckleheads say well, how do you know what Peter was? Who are you? Are you his representative? Like no, I just rode in a car, five million times drunk, home, with a guy with my life in his hands talking about all sorts of shit. You know, I don't even know how we're alive. 

Every Friday night or Saturday night we would be in that piece of shit car that he put together. You know, he had like a crazy Russian mechanic. He used like Cadillac front control arms to be able to put big tires on that grand prix, um, that crazy tank car that he made, and we would ride home and I think it sounded like it was falling apart. We'd be driving home every weekend from alphabet city, totally trashed. I mean, all of us and I don't know, I don't advocate that type of behavior. I think it's really bad. I don't know how he got away with it. But boy, oh boy, we made it home every time and Pete was driving. Pete was driving. Uh, those were the great times. 

That was the real type, oh. The real type, oh, is when, when we hung out in the Lower East village at all the Goth bars and clubs and just got in trouble and caused all sorts of havoc. And then you know, we'd go like after rehearsal and be all pumped up from like. You know it was like we did things in such an old school way. You know, back then and I'm very fond of those memories. I'll never, you know, even even at this age, things like moments like that in a band will never be reproduced, because when you're young there is a uh, there's a carelessness to it all. You know you just, you're just living on a whim because you're young and you think you're going to be alive forever. And you know, when you're older you start worrying about dying and breaking bones and breaking hips and forgetting your geritol and shit. You know. 

Zach Moonshine
You were cracking me up in one of the videos where  you were talking about. You know that you were like one of the only guys to have the balls to fucking go head to head with Peter about some stuff, man. 

Sal Abruscato
I broke my hand once because I punched a wall instead of hitting Peter. You know something, I was, I was, I listened, I had a big mouth, I wasn't innocent. I. You know, me and Pete, we would butt heads a lot because I was the only one that didn't. He used to use his size to intimidate people, but I was like this nut job Sicilian that was like raised on like ninth Avenue in Manhattan and had all our mobsters and stuff in the meat business and shit, and I was just like I ain't taking your shit, man, I'll fucking hit you right in the knee. Okay, how big you are, you know, and I. We used to have arguments and we did argue a lot and that kind of led a little bit to why we kind of fell apart. But you know, what's the most amazing thing in the world's act is that literally the year, the year he passed away, was the year we started talking a lot again and we actually had a lot of discussions. 

I was actually working on it. I was in the middle of doing this first project idea, which became the first A Pale Horse Named Death record, which also came out in 2010 after his death, and that's why I was able to dedicate it to him inside the record and we were literally talking about him, maybe like doing something on it if it was possible. He was in Pennsylvania, but he was calling me all of a sudden. He had this crazy idea, which I knew wasn't going to work, but he was like I want to put together another version of a car, or I want, you know, I'd like for you to play the drums, but we would also play all the type of material that you played on. And I'm like, well, isn't Johnny going to get mad? Or you know like, aren't people going to get like their panties tied in knots? He's like why you recorded those songs, those songs? You did them. And I was like, oh well, you know. He's like I think we can make a lot of money in Europe. He had a lot of grand ideas. 

Zach Moonshine:
Oh man, that would have been fucking badass!

We had a lot of illusions of grandeur though, because he thought he was worth more than he really was at that point. And so I went talking to, like at that time, a couple of agents and finding out, and then, when I got the numbers, I was like Pete, as far as Carnivores concerned, the numbers aren't there you know this idea that you have about tour buses and this and that I said the money's not there to make it all happen. I said you'd have to like really downsize big time. And so we were talking blah, blah, blah, blah, and then I had to go leave. I remember it was I had to leave for a weekend or two to do some one off shows in Europe with life of agony, and the last conversation I had before I left, I actually was at my parents. He called me on my cell phone and this was two weeks before he died, and just he was just saying what's up, and I told him I was at my parents, and just some small talk. I said yeah, I'll talk to you in a few days, bro. We'll figure this out if we can do something, because I was very much interested as well, because he was I mean, hands down like the best musician I ever worked with. He made me a better drummer too. 

Just the bounce off, we had me and him, the chemistry that we had in the room, because he would play a riff and boom, the drums would just fall to place and then everything else would chime in and then he would tell everyone else what to play and it was like kind of like a lot of times somebody's riffs he'd have in his head and we would either be. I'll tell you right now. This is where we start the first place. Our first studio was actually in the basement of a Brooklyn building that my dad owned and we had built this room and it was concrete floor and people brought this paint from the parks department that he, when he was working for the parks department, it was like this, this like totally poisonous oil paint that took five months to dry and every time you touch the wall, even months later, you still would get paint on you in the studio. And it was so loud down here because it was a concrete basement and that was the first studio that we were working on all the slow, deep and hard repulsion material, the first demo. But then we were at a studio called Ace London in Brooklyn, and I remember being in that room and either I would kick a beat or he would just start playing a riff that he had in his mind from his house, that he had some words for, and boom, and it would be like live drums being written right then and there. And a lot of times, though, I would argue with him. That's when we would fight because he would be asking me to do something that I did not want to do because it'd be totally stiff and boring, and I mean like, no, I'm doing it this way. And in the end I'd always win out because then Josh would be like it sounds better his way. He, you know, would be one of those kind of things. So I kind of got that on every song I would win out. But you know, I had a lot of. You know the way I met those guys. I'll backtrack a little bit. The way I met Josh not Josh, but Louis Beato and Peter Steele was also through. 

I had started working when I was 13 at a local blacksmith shop in Brooklyn that made these Latin percussion instruments. You know all types of bells, go-go bells, cowbells, all this type of stuff, and in fact, people like, in fact, Eric Carr, who was a Brooklynite, would come in there. Sheila E would come in there, Tito Puente, like some Latin celebrities, would come in there. They would do like a bunch of gack in the back and then it would start banging away on congas and bells and drums and I'd be this kid, 13 years old, like on a sheer cut of cotton metal. Well, just so this happens that when I worked there, I actually replaced, who worked there before me was Louis and Peter and the owner of this blacksmith shop. His name was Joe Papo D'Ariego and he heard like a demo. 

I played on with these kids when we were really young and he was like Sal, sal, sal. He talked like Catman , do you know, like Wolfman Jack , and he was like. He was like listen here, man, listen here, man. You're just not. You're not good enough, man. You got to get lessons. Man, you got to get lessons. I'm going to turn you on to this cat. His name is Louis. He lives right over here. I'm going to give you his phone number. You call him up. Papo sent you and that you want to take drum lessons from him and he'll set you right. 

And Louis was young. These guys were nine years older than me. Peter and Louis Beato were both nine years older than me, hence why I was the rebellious kid in typo, with Peter always wanting to fight and everyone else was walking away. So that's how, and I called Louis, just happened to live actually an avenue away from me on the same street. I made that phone call, I started taking lessons and then, boom, and then I got turned on to carnivore through him and I became such a. I was so mesmerized. I idolized them. I really did. I thought they were amazing and it would become such a huge influencer in me that, between all these flavors, I was getting a little bit of this Latin. Louis had it too, this Latin influence we got from this guy working at a shop all the time, listening to this music all day long, this whole syncopated grooves and this kind of speech that would make me want to dance, and I had that kind of influence, as well as all the American and UK influences, like John Bonham and Bill Ward and all these kind of guys. And that's how I met those two, before any of these other guys, and that's how it really started. And I started becoming friends with Peter by just hanging out with them. I was rodent for them. I was helping them load in and out of the studio that they had. They had a garage on Cotell. 

You wrote in Brooklyn Dude for a dude that smoked a lot of pot. I remember everything. I remember everything and that's why I'm so dangerous to all these fucking guys, because they forgot everything. They did all kinds of hard drugs and shit. That's how it was. And it was like me and Pete were the OG and it was like I know this, I want keyboards, I know I want to work with Josh again. I was like, oh, you know, and at that time I had like a studio also. I was like, well, I got this friend Kenny. He's in a band but he seems like a good guitarist, he might be good. And that's how it started. 

We met in like a park called Marine Park in the summer of 1989. August I don't remember the exact date, but it was August 1989. It was hot and humid in Brooklyn and we had like this five, 10 minute meeting. You know, a couple of beers, yada, yada, and that was it. And Pete was like I'll know in five minutes if this is going to work or not, typical pessimist or whatever that he was, and that was how it started and that was, you know. That's what these new fans need to know. 

Because that's the problem is, you get these kids, like, look, my daughter's 13. She thinks she's a Nirvana fan. Know it all. When my wife, who was an OG Nirvana fan, you know, taught her the real way of going back knowing about the seven drummers that were in that band it wasn't just Dave Grohl, you know. So. So, like, like that's the thing, these new kids come along and it's great that they discover these bands. Like you know my daughter is 13, she's listening to Hendrix. You know Black Sabbath, you know, I just, I just we just watched a Randy Rhodes documentary the other day because she's playing guitar and you know, and that's cool. If they can learn the history the right way, then that means the history will continue correctly. But if a 14 year old newbie typo fan discovers, you know, likes the band and goes, oh, johnny's the best. 

He played on every record, I literally had fans argue. I watched fans argue. On the typo negative page there was fans literally arguing a couple of angles. One of them was there was no live drums until Dead Again. Or Sal obviously was not good enough because they used drum machine after him. That was the other one. What the fuck Can you believe that kind of nonsense? Obviously Sal wasn't good enough because they used the drum machine after him. What? Where do these, please? What school are they going to and where do they get their fucking degree? You know? 

Zach Moonshine
That doesn't even make sense, man, you know, for fuck's sake?

Sal Abruscato
Literally. That deserves, for fuck's sake. I mean you, just it, just it just blows my mind and that's what's killing me is the disinformation and the inaccuracy of it. Just blows my mind on how stuff gets really changed over time Thanks to the bullshit of social media. Because, look, we all started before all this crap existed. You know, Type O Negative was word of mouth. Life of Agony was word of mouth. We went out there and played and toured and we were in actual magazines. You know we were like you did. It was all tangible stuff that you touched with your hands, were like the last generation of guys that actually sold physical records in the 90s. That's it. It was over, yeah. 

And you know now the bullshit stories I hear. You know, like, like the bullshit that this management company was telling Dye Humane what they needed to do as a new band to go somewhere was blue. I was like fuck that. I'm not doing any of that shit. I'm not wearing fucking clown mess, I'm not putting on fucking makeup. I'm not going to wear a fucking robe. I'm not going to look like I'm part of a fucking. You know some kind of black mass with a hooded fucking. You know butterfly wings and shit, just like I mean, there's all this shit going on now and I'm just not. I like being the real thing and I like being me and it's like nowadays they want like, if you notice, every new band now has got fucking clown makeup on now and that's cool, that's a totally, it's a niche. I mean it should be the mandatory thing you do to try to get any kind of success or get your music discovered, though you know you know they were trying to tell you to do that. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, what the fuck man? 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, that's what I said. What the fuck? No, you know so, so. So. So, you know, without saying names, it's just, it's a different ball game and you know what. I guess I'm a fucking dinosaur, like people say, and that's okay, because I'll still sit on a, I'll still pick up a guitar, I'll still pick up the drumsticks and I'll still fucking kick ass if I want to, and I'm still always going to play, but I don't know how much in the limelight it'll be. I mean, it's. 

It's like I was working, you know what, before this shit hit the fan. I just had a meeting, like a month, I don't know, three weeks ago or a month ago, and I was thinking, I'm thinking, contemplating about doing. I've been taking a long time. I'd like to, I like creating, you know, I like making music, I like I'd like to have a nice band of guys together and jam, you know. But I haven't even been able to do that because the pandemic really fucked things up too, and and and, and still. There's still some kind of recovery, it seems like happening from that. 

And now this whole thing where bands are being extorted by the venues because they all want to try to take even more merch money now and take. You know they they want to hit you with the 30% thing, like they're a big theater and and they're trying to. You know everyone's trying to get their asses covered from losing so much money from the pandemic and and if you're in the entertainment business, that was the worst business to be in with this, this whole pandemic. But I'll tell you what, Zach, I really believe that they had to crush live concerts. Why? Because bands and rock stars are like one of the only most powerful people that can command such a huge audience and actually give them a little bit of influence. 

And that's always a big threat. Even since the sixties, that was always a big threat to the government, you know. And what better than to come up with a way to just shut down every mom and pop store, every band, every theater, every performance, every Broadway play, anything that reaches people and makes them feel good and takes them out of their manic depression. And you know, they just, they, just, I swear it's a massive agenda. It really is. And they never talked about how many suicides actually happened during that time, which were a tremendous amount, and everyone got bamboozled. And you know what a friend of mine told me as long as, as long as these dumb people have their Lego land, their Netflix and their and their Facebook and their social media, they don't care what's going on around them. They won't know what's happening. You know They'll be a flash of light and then they'll be toast. You know they won't know. 

Zach Moonshine
They definitely do try to shut it down. Man Like I mean we, we, we even had to deal with that. 

Sal Abruscato
They've dumbed everybody down, dude, everyone's getting dumbed down. Conditioning, conditioning is what it is. It's conditioning. You know, we've been conditioned. That was a big test. Covid was a big test to see what they could get away with us, and I'm sorry, but that that's how I see it. 

Zach Moonshine
We had to deal with that, even on a smaller level, you know, just with putting on our festivals here in Tennessee. 

Sal Abruscato
Man, you know a lot of people were trying to shut that down and not let it happen, because you know like you said you know, why should people be happy? 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, they don't want fucking these people to come out and have something they can be proud of and have, be happy and feel empowered in some way. 

Sal Abruscato
Exactly, exactly. 

It's called empowerment and hope and faith. That's why they crushed religion and that's why they crushed entertainment and music and arts and anything that makes people feel good and feel freedom. Look at, okay, they could. The biggest fear was Woodstock 1969. Look at how they assembled so many people. That many people in one place is very powerful. It will even make the government afraid and the military afraid. You know, like, like, like, like. You assembled that many people and they were real froggy in the sixties and about it. 

And that's why Nixon, you know, pulled all the shit he did about turning, like you know, marijuana into a class one and he changed everything so they could have more reasons to lock up all these rebels. And you know, and when, marijuana was like the least violent, least dangerous natural God's own medicine on the planet, you know. But yet what, what, what? We got fentanyl pouring in the fucking 90 miles an hour and I got to worry about God forbid if my daughter's ever going to get her hands on a fucking skittles and it's a fentanyl. You know what I mean. That's okay, though, right, he's talking about that, but you can't all get together, you know. Look when there's that vocalist that commands a 50,000 capacity audience at a festival or a 1000 or even 100 people and that person could command that audience, almost like Jesus. He's a fucking threat, just like Jesus was a threat, and they had to take him down. Anyone that's a threat Zach gets taken down. Anyone that speaks the truth gets taken down. 

If you go along with the narrative and go, go, go, go, go, yeah, you're the best, I'm all for it. They then you're okay, and that's what. That's what makes me fucking laugh, like this whole what's going on with this music industry. I don't know why it couldn't just be about music, why couldn't it just I thought music was punk rock and supposed to be about rebellion that conforming to this narrative that's going on that if you don't agree with it, you get crushed. 

You know from what I understand there's other musicians out there that someone was telling me the story about Tommy Vexed, who is in a similar situation like me, and they, they, they, they, they crushed his career. And he was. He was like the singer in that Lebed Wolves band and they were doing really good, I think, and and and then he lost his career because he didn't run with the bulls. But yet you got all these other knuckleheads on, these bobbleheads on blabbermouth . I won't name bands, but all these bands that, all these guys that are in their fifties and sixties trying to stay relevant. 

You know, you know the hypocrisy it's like. Are you kidding me? You were freaking, your fucking, your, your, your, your banging girls in the back of your bus and now you want to act like you fucking. Can you fucking kidding me? What, what? You know who's even funnier? Howard Stern. I was like, I was a big Howard Stern fan in the late eighties, early nineties and that guy I remember buying his, his, his DVD CDs set called Butt Bongo. It was when he was still up and coming. 

It was like 91, butt Bongo, whatever Good guy, the womanizing, throwing bologna slices on women's asses, putting on black face, making fun of all sorts of people with genders and races, and now he's like, became this holier than thou. I'm woker than woke motherfuckers, he says. And I'm like you're a fucking piece of shit. You know what? You're? Nothing but a hypocrite. I have more respect for people that just behave themselves. Good will to all mankind. Do whatever the fuck you want, but everyone should mind their own business and don't bring that business into my home. Very simple. 

Sal Abruscato
And this all does a full circle back to I was dealing with that for years from from a one band and then to see the two merge together. And there's this artwork. Re-release 30 years is a pretty big deal. 

Zach Moonshine
That's a huge deal. 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, and to be left off of. It was why I was very upset and I'm sure I could have been a little bit more filtered, but I wasn't. I threw everyone under the bus that had anything to do with anything and that was it. And I said I'm not here to make friends, I have no friends. These friends have left me alone. You know, I haven't talked to Kenny Hickey in like seven years. You know, because I dropped him. 

Because when my album when the world becomes undone came out, he called me up and he, whatever, congratulated me, blah, blah, blah, but then started saying to me how he couldn't get a record deal for his band Silver Tune. I was like, oh okay, I never heard the band. I was like, well, and me being Mr Nice guy, I was like, well, I can, you know, introduce you to my A&R guy at SBV and you know I can vouch for you and you know I'm sure they'll work something out with you to at least release it, since you already have it done. And sure enough they did. They put out long branch records, gave them. I guess it was a one record thing and they put it out. 

And then he's on a video interview and I happened to come across it on my feed, and I think it was the guy from Heavy New York. He asked him so how did you guys get your deal? And he gave the credit to the guy Frank from Metal Injection. And I was just like, really, Frank from Metal Injection. Oh, okay, I thought it was me that wrote the longest extensive email vouching for you and introducing you to my A&R guy and saying that you have a record ready to go. It's probably a good opportunity for them to work with you. 

Okay, thanks a lot, buddy, and that was it. I never bothered to even explain it. Talk to him again. I just had enough with helping that guy out and using me. He used me all the time. I got him into a lot of jobs. I've made him money many times on the side for things. I got him into the production business, rigging business, all that stuff, working in show business, making money. So it's one of those neighborhood friends things, your neighborhood friends, and you're kind of like that's what you do. You always help your friend out, but it's always how it turns out. You start realizing, as you get older though, it's been a long way street and that's how that ended with that. 

Zach Moonshine
Has anybody reached out to you since this? To try to make things right and fix this?

Sal Abruscato
No, like I said, I texted back and forth with Josh. He didn't really seem to have a right, seemed to know or have a resolution for anything. And I texted Johnny and he all he said to me was well, you don't think I have anything to do with it, do you? He tried to right away clear his ass with that and I was like look, dude, the mere fact that you had Alan Robert do your artwork, you guys had to have approved it and you guys are well aware of that. It was done like that. So it's not about who, what, where, it's just the fact that I've been discredited. And he didn't even he read it. He didn't even respond. He couldn't even respond to that. And then you know what else I did, Zach. I publicly made a video and challenged him to a drum off anywhere in the country. Have you seen that video? It's on my page. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, I challenged him to a drum off, which I think would you know like we could donate the money to charity. I think a lot of typo fans would just show up just to see that It'd be a battle of the drum off. You know just whatever. Have a fucking good time. You know 30 minutes of fucking beating the shit out of the drums and then everyone have a drink. Right, have a good time. I said it in good spirits because I'm down to do it, but I never, and I even saw fans even tagging him and calling him out on it too and not a response, not a peep, nothing, not even a laugh or a chuckle saying get out of here he's, you know like not nothing. 

Zach Moonshine
Wow. 

Sal Abruscato
Because they. You know why? Because they know they fucked up and I'm super pissed and they know how I get when I'm mad. 

Zach Moonshine
You would think that the media would even be behind something like that, because you know that's just more drama. 

Sal Abruscato
No Revolver got turned against me, Blabbamouth got turned against me. There's the Metal Injection , the other one, Metal Insider . Any, all these people that run these little outlets that are close friends with Alan Robert and the LOA guys and their agent those are the people that have worked against me. Anyone that doesn't know them or has a connection with them or an influence on them? Nobody's that hasn't but the circle they pretty much like even tour managers like you. Right now they're using a tour manager. No, they're using a tour manager that worked for me two times. They've gone and like hired every single person I've hired over the years, like, like just to turn them against me. 

Used to be friends, you know like they take it, like they took Kenny’s Silvertomb out on tour right away after that incident and they just did nothing but talk shit about me over and over, saying what a bad person I am, and they went on a tear because I was on the only one on the planet that can really call out their musicianship, which is really not much to write home about. You got a couple of guys that are one-trick ponies in that band and I used to complain about that and I used to feel very bored and unchallenged and that was one of the big things. At the end with the fight that, you know, there was an email, some nasty emails going back and forth, and I was like you guys don't even have to fucking play, you know, I was like your timing is so bad. You know that I actually make you look good. It was like one of those kind of fights, you know, and it just it's just stupid. It's stupid and you know something to say about it is that band. You know I, of course I've suffered, you know, not working with a band like that for a while and at the same time, that band has changed a lot because they don't sound like the band that they used to be. They sound like a totally different band now, very different. So, hey, I'm all down for letting people live their lives, but when this stuff keeps popping up on me and I keep getting mistreated, I mean it really sucks being a public figure and this is why I lay low a lot of times and I disappear and it takes me a long time to even say and mention anything about doing music. Because I'm like, why am I going to be a glutton for punishment and put myself through this continuous abuse. 

When you got this little scene up in New York Because it's really there, it's up in New York. The problem is up there, All these label media, people that are all in cahoots and friends. You know it's like his wife worked at Warner too, so they have a little bit of pull. You know they can ask for favors, so and that's what they did. They knew what they were doing. I was like I'm gonna go to my old. You know, when I saw Ty Bo which I left on good terms like Josh came up to see me because I had some things that returned to him that I held to him, and he came up to my house in New York before I left, and you know I thought everything was cool too. You know, every time they did a read like last year, what they did Origin Of Feces came out with a cool little scratch and sniff sticker with the original asshole artwork, which is, to me, the better album cover, and you know they always sent me these remakes and reissues. 

I didn't get paid, but you know, because you know they were fucking giving my money to someone else. That's a whole nother argument, you know. A whole nother discussion for another day. And I have talked to attorneys and I'm trying to figure things out with that too. But I'm not really that greedy about it. I just really want what's right and just everyone just needs to leave me alone with this shit and maybe one day I can feel like I'm going to put a record again without having to get squashed. You know, it's like one day, it's like one minute you got Revolver sweating your records and then the next minute they won't even do like a review, you know. And then that's very obvious to me, because I was always very cordial with all these media people. I never said nothing to anyone like bad and they just decided to go on, get on Team Mina and light their tortures and go burn the witch in Salem. That's all it is. It's a freaking witch hunt. 

Zach Moonshine
Now I know you said in one of the videos that you guys really didn't have contracts and stuff like that done when you were young, because you were just kids, you know. And it was like a brotherly thing, you know, like it didn't even matter. 

Sal Abruscato
Correct. That was my naivety on my part, but at the same time, you know what, Technically, the physical performance, my physical presence on that record being reissued over and over and over has something to be said for too. 

Zach Moonshine
Well, yeah. I mean but that's just crazy, like, because all of us that grew up in that era, all of us that fucking were fans of the band at that time. We all fucking know, we all bought the records, we all looked at the fucking liner notes, we all know who the fuck played on what you know, like how can that be erased? That's crazy. 

Sal Abruscato
It's kind of like no different than how the country's changed before your eyes. 

Zach Moonshine
That's fucking wild man. I mean, I know what happens yeah, exactly, I know that happens all the time. But like fuck man, like really. 

Sal Abruscato
It happens to a lot of musicians, you know it happens to people. It happens all the time. That's why it's a shitty business, you know. If you think about it and now I mean it was always a dangerous shitty business. But now I don't know, like now, these bands, these young bands, there's nothing new. I like I can't even, I don't even know what the fuck is going on anymore. But these bands, they have it hard. I mean, it's so saturated and because it is social media, it's even harder to stand out. Everyone's a rock star overnight on social media. You know, before you even have to prove yourself on stage, you just got to look at the pond, you're right there. You start a handle on Instagram and you're an Insta star, you know. 

Zach Moonshine
What kind of advice can you give to young musicians out there right now that are starting up? You know bands that are getting together and whatnot. What can you tell them, man? 

Sal Abruscato
Get a good trade job that has job security. Do you still have a favor? You want to be in a band? Learn a good trade to fall back on. Not enough people know how to do trades and there's a big demand for it. Plum is electricians, carpenters. You know? I honestly don't know what to say because you know what. I have my own daughter who I just got her a new guitar and an orange amp. She is aspiring. She played cello and violin in school and orchestras but now she's been playing the guitar for a few years but she's super academically doing great. 

So being someone that's been there, done that, and when you give your whole life up to music, you know like a whole of fans think, like they have this illusion like you made this money or whatever. You're fucking rich and all this shit and it's just. A lot of times it's okay, a lot of times it's an illusion. There's a lot of suffering in this kind of lifestyle. There's a lot of ups and downs and if you get hooked up with the wrong people. So I would advise that you know A it be as dedicated as possible, because it takes 110% dedication at your instrument and your craft and then I would say learn as much as you can about the legalities of the business. So once you start working with other musicians, if someone is claiming to try to take all the credit for writing a song that you participated in, you will know what to do and you will know how to stand up for your rights. And know that. You know how things work when you sign up for maybe ASCAP royalties or you know BMG or these different kinds of royalty organizations and how things get split. If you can walk into the door, kind of knowing a little bit about that stuff, that helps, because if you walk in naively and you're with maybe older people, they'll take advantage. You know and know that you're not going to. You know, know how to protect yourself. 

So I'd say that you should be super dedicated to your instrument. You have to learn how to crawl before you can run. So for the drummers out there, getting on a drum set and wanting to learn how to do blast beats first is a ridiculous, inappropriate idea. You really should learn how to just groove solid at 4-4 and do that for an hour before you stop. You know and then go from there. You know, you got to. It's a pyramid. You got to build the foundation. 

So, being a musician you have to build a good foundation and it's an everlasting journey. You know, even at this age I changed, like my stick size a couple of years ago because, you know, as I was getting all the wrists and stuff changing and I started, I started playing a different type of stick that opened up a lot of different doors when it came to finesse, a little more jazzy type of stuff or, you know, little nuances that you don't really get to hear, and a lot of heavy metal stuff. But I do do and I did do that kind of stuff. I'm known for doing ghost notes and shit. 

But my point being is it is always an everlasting journey that you continue on. You're never going to stop learning, whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, 80, you know, there's always something new to do and it is a lifelong dedication. And being a musician isn't just about having a job and getting paid for it. If it's something you love to do as a pastime and it heals you and it's and it's therapy, then by all means play. Just know what reality is and what, what, what the reality is of what you're looking to accomplish. But playing an instrument is the most beautiful thing you could be doing. You know it's so gratifying, you know, and dedication and practice, practice, practice Well one last question for you, man. 

Zach Moonshine
You know, since it is the 30th anniversary of this record and it's a great record, man, it should be remembered. Is there something that people probably don't know that happened? Is there something during the recording of Bloody Kisses that you can tell us, that people maybe don't know? 

Sal Abruscato
We had Peter play guitar solo on the record. 

Zach Moonshine
Really. 

Sal Abruscato
Really. 

Zach Moonshine
He did. 

Sal Abruscato
He did what. He played a couple of the solos. There was a couple of solos that he wanted done a certain way and he took the guitar and did them Because they weren't coming out the way he wanted it to. And it was all the psychedelic stuff, the real Beatles type of stuff. Can't, I think, and can't lose you and the trippy stuff in the latter half of the record. 

Zach Moonshine
Did him and Kenny fight about that, or was it? 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, Kenny, Kenny was fine with it. I don't think Kenny had a choice. Kenny was almost kicked out of the band on the first record. 

Zach Moonshine
Really. 

Sal Abruscato
And that's what I talked about in my video. That was one of my under the bus moments when people were telling me how could you throw people under the bus like that? I don't know, maybe people should know what a good guy I was. Peter wanted to kick him out a couple of times during the slow, deep and hard days because his playing was very sloppy, and I defended him. I said, well, we can't do that to the guy. He's trying and he got better over the years, but he was pretty sloppy in the beginning and it drove Peter up the wall and he was at jeopardy, had had had, I think. 

Josh, I don't recall his stance, to be honest with you, but I defended him and I was like we can't do that, you know, and give a chance, kind of thing. And so he did and, sure enough, he ended up having a nice career out of that. Um, you know, maybe had I not defended him uh, sincerely, maybe it would have been a different story and it would have been a different guitar later on. You know, because I know Peter did have his eye on Paul Bento , the dude that was in Carnivore with him, and he also did the sitar work on uh, on, bloody kisses. 

 Zach Moonshine
Yeah. 

Sal Abruscato
So, but before all that he had his eye on that guy too. What about three ago? That's stuff you don't know. 

Zach Moonshine
What about all the B sides man? Because there's some fucking really good stuff on the B sides man, like the Black Sabbath cover and Suspended in Dusk ? 

Sal Abruscato
I didn't do the Black Sabbath cover. That was actually Johnny Kelly, that was on. Uh, that was a last minute add on to the reissue when they redid the origin of feces with a more tamed cover. That record had me on it but the lead they added that as a bonus song on that, on the redesign of it, that Black Sabbath Paranoid, which was they? They had Johnny, I don't know, play on it. So, uh, but Suspended In Dusk. 

That song, probably one of the slowest songs I ever played, that's one of my favorites and you know like there's like the secret thing on it with Peter whispers, I buried Sal, just like how the Beatles did. I buried Paul, I buried Sal. 

Zach Moonshine
I never heard that, so I'm going to have to listen to it again. 

Sal Abruscato
It's very low in the end, very low. Yeah, you got to. Let, you got it. They put a lot of those little Easter eggs in there, um, but yeah, that song I mean, honestly, at this moment I don't even remember how it goes, but I just know that it was the slowest. He wanted to go slow. So you want to go slow? All right, we're going to go slow. And I remember smoking a lot of pot it was man, it was so fucking slow, 

Zach Moonshine
But it was so heavy because it was so slow. 

Sal Abruscato
You know like well slow is heavy. You know it's harder to play slow than it is to play fast that's what I've heard from a lot of fucking drummers, man there's a lot of open space to get lost in and you have to develop how to keep the timing in between the open spaces, so your notes are landing still like a clock, so there's more room to go wrong. But yeah, so there were things like that. I mean, look, though, working on those records with those guys was like the biggest learning experiences for me. It's why I think I know it helped me develop my ear, and I learned a lot from just sitting around and watching them with the studio production, with the engineer, Mike Marciano at Systems 2 Studios , and I learned a lot. I learned a lot from Peter. I did learn a lot from Josh. 

I used to live with Josh in his house. I lived in his house for about eight months and when we were working on Bloody Kisses, I was living at his place and we would do nothing but every night, sit there, listen to other records, compare, talk about the approach with the snare head, and and we did we really broke it down. We spent a lot of time on the drum sounds. We spent two days tuning Mike with the mic and trying it coming back. That you know and and I was playing a really big kit with like big toms and really big toms 14, 15 and 18 and they were big deep power toms and and and it was cool. It was a lot of hard work, though, because they were hard to control and, with the work paid off, the record sounded great. There was no click track. There was no, no, nothing to keep a metronome, it was all my stick clicks and hi-hat. 

In between everything going on, I had a habit of in those open spaces I would hit my sticks like I was keeping. You know I would keep time even though I'm counting out. I would hit my stick in between the beat. I was doing that in certain spots in LOA to to just keep things super perfect and steady, and that was my thing, that was that was my. My forte was that combination of that groovy flavor with the super slow steadiness and big open tom fills and that whole thing that I created by being in that band. That band Peter inspired my style for a long time, with taking lessons from Louis, along with working in a Latino percussion shop for a couple of years and being around all kinds of artists that just all day long, you know. But I did that all day long in the shop. 

It was nuts, you know you get a headache after a while but, you know, I was hearing all kinds of patterns as a kid and I was an aspiring drummer. I was 13, I was, I was fucking already playing, and you know excuse my French, but it's a great history. I wouldn't change it. You know, yeah, you know, everyone says, oh, you know he. You know, you know, he made the biggest mistake of his career, hindsight's 2020. 

You know, at that moment, I was fighting a lot with Pete. He was insisting he didn't want to go on tour. Whether it was a premeditated plan or not, it just was like I had just done the life-agony record. Those kids were gonna do like 10 months of touring, and I was a lot younger than those guys in typo. And you know, I was like I gotta make a move, I want to get out of here, I want to get out of Brooklyn, I want to get on the road, I want to do this. This is my dream, and that's really what it was. It was like this is my dream and I need to get out there. Yeah, you know. 

Sure enough, though, whatever the label, they offered Peter some kind of security that gave him enough courage to leave the job and go on tour, because I had done two tours with Peter and they were disastrous, disastrous. I toured, I did what. We did a tour in Europe and we did a tour in the United States with us Biohazard and The Exploited , and that was probably one of the most insane tours of my life. But yeah it, Peter hated it, he want, he wanted to go home every day. He bitching, complained and then when I made up songs in the back of an he could front of him would you tell him man, he got more bad, you know what you tell him when he was trying to do that shit he want to go home. 

You know let's go home to his mother, you know, and things like that. So you know he was a mama's boy. You know he loved his mother very much. He was a good Catholic boy, you know, he really was. He had good morals, he really was raised right and that's why I was blown away, like after my time, like after I was in a band, when he did play girl. I couldn't believe it. I really couldn't believe it. And you know, when he was a lot older, that way ended up being one of his greatest regrets that his mom ended up finding out oh no yeah, that he did something like that and does. 

He had like five sisters, four or five sisters. So of course the sisters told the mother, you know, and they're all older than him, he was the youngest kid in the family, he was late, he was like an accident, you know, like. 

Zach Moonshine
I remember he was on one of those very old daytime shows. 

Sal Abruscato
Ricky Lake. He got caught up in all that. 

Sal Abruscato
That was the beginning. Honestly, knowing where he came from, that was the beginning of the end. He was a good soul deep down inside but he got tainted and caught up with the wrong people doing this playgirl nonsense. He did a few other things. Then he was on these stupid TV shows for the same bullshit and this was like sacrilegious, coming from a Roman Catholic family, sacrilegious blasphemy, you know. And his mother and father were. They were. They were very religious, catholic. He was very raised, very Catholic. They went against his morals, his morality. In the end, it tormented him in the end. In the end he regretted it. In the end, in the late in his life, he regretted doing those decisions. 

There he was, Peter was a great soul and he was exploited. He was exploited by all these, these hyenas, these jackals that surrounded him and his band didn't do anything to protect him and the road crew were nothing but bad influencers and nobody did anything to protect them. Because he was, he was a big guy, but he was also weak emotionally, he was fragile and no one knew, knew him unless you knew that, unless you knew him for ages. And that's why I say they killed Peter because this was allowed to spiral out of control and he got into this kind of nonsense way too late in life and he already had health problems and that's it. What, if? What do you expect? When he tried to straighten, when I was talking to him, he was doing good, he was planning on moving back to Staten Island. He told me that he was working on it, they were helping him to get an apartment and he was nine months sober. He was sober when he died, but that was too little, too late, as they say. So he died of poisoning septicemia. 

You know what that is, yeah he had a hole in his stomach because his ulcers were. The ulcers was so bad and he stayed in his house. I don't know this place with some lady in Pennsylvania thinking he had a flu or he. He was terrible at getting himself checked out. He was terrible with doctors. He didn't go to the doctor. He was freaking, poisoning himself the whole time. He thought he had the flu. He died literally as they took him out through the threshold of the apartment he was living in on the gurney. He died on the way to, before he even got him into the ambulance. The guy died like a dog, alone and nobody there. All these bullshit people, all these bullshit vultures that sucked him dry. He was generous. He gave his money away. He told me when I was talking to him I won't say how much he was broke. He was broke when I was talking to him two weeks before he died. He was broke. He had no money, man everybody thinks it's something. 

You know, big rock star. You know, when you have all these freaking hyenas and these leeches and these jackals all around you just there, while the good times are there and the the rider is nice and big backstage with all that liquor and beer, well, these freaking seamsters show up with their pockets lined with cocaine, just trying to be cool. Here you go, do a bump, here you go. That's all it is, man, it's such a. You know, I was trying to be fucking cool backstage. It's a stupid scene, you know it is. I'll say that now because I'm in my 50s. I lived it. I was Paul, I had my time, you know, I was smart, though I didn't go, I didn't do that. That kind of stuff, you know, on a regular basis or anything like. People got caught up in it, but this shit I had many times. It's always there. People offer just to have access to get backstage. So. So that's why I say he was surrounded by hyenas and jackals and vultures and they all stripped them and picked them, picked them to bits, and then his own band criticized him. Oh, he can't do this, he's crazy, he can't do that. He's that, he's that. He's that. He's that he's, that he's fucking helped him get to this point. I don't give a shit what you think. You helped him get to this point, and this is the kind of shit that people don't want to get called down on. And there's only one motherfucker on the planet that can, that does that and that's me, and that's why they don't like me. I've called out every single one of these little fucking clowns at one point or another and in time, whether it be the LA folks or this. This situation. It's just bullshit, and I said it back then too. 

I said I told them. When he passed away, I said how come you guys didn't look out for him? What? Why didn't you? Why didn't you protect him? They try to play it off like he's stopping. 

I said why did you allow this guy to hang out when there was a particular guy that hung out with him, that always showed up with the goods, kept him knocked up all the time on that shit and and and, and. I was like if I was in the band, I would have fucking broke the guy's jaw and I would have told him if you come back again, I'm gonna put a fucking bullet right in your ear, you know so that that's what I would have done. I would have done everything I would, because that you're protecting not only your friend but you're protecting your, your business, your entity, your future. You're protecting a lot of things. Okay, it's all nice to have party time, party time, but it's a fucking business and the bands that live party time, party time, and don't understand the business are the ones that eventually deteriorate. They get screwed or something or things go wrong and it's a shame. It's a shame, but I still hold people I inside. Personally, I think people are somewhat accountable for him reaching to that point. 

Why did he have an ulcer? Because of the excessive drinking. Why was he excessively drinking? Because he was allowed to, he was, he was pigheaded, he was. You know they tried, I know they tried doing interventions. They did, they tried. I'll give them that they tried doing interventions, but it was already late, just too late in the game, too late in the game. It was just already. 

Like you know, should have been nipped at the bud early, but you know the band got big and you know success get. You know that they had a high moment with the bloody kisses into October rust. You know that the tour with Pantera, you know yeah, I was gonna say something about that too. 

Zach Moonshine
You know, he had a funny funny side to him too, and one of my favorite videos is, well, funny yeah from the Pantera home videos. There was one moment when they were on tour with him and they're, you know, dimebag and Pantera, they're all fucking trashing the stage and Peter comes out there with a fucking push broom and he's cleaning up the stage while they're playing you know, he's like fucking come on, yeah that always cracked me up. 

Sal Abruscato
I like that, that was just that was his job. He was very. You know what he really missed. He missed that. He missed being an average regular guy. You know, he was a little bit out of his element being in that rock star thing and I think that's why he also kind of imploded. That's what I always took from that moment when I saw that on that video. 

Zach Moonshine
That's what I always take from that, like his element.

Sal Abruscato 

He was just trying to be in his element, you know, and just a blue collar guy, yeah, yeah, blue collar Brooklyn, brooklyn guy. 

You know, you know friends with all the cops, friends with all the firemen, you know he had taken. When I went to his house to talk to him about jam and I remember I rang the bell, his father answered upstairs. He let me in. I walked in. You know. He said, Peter, your friends here, alright, send him down, I go down. He's laying in his bed. He had cut all his hair off. That's why in the early, slow, deep and hard photos he had short hair. I had long hair. Then I cut mine after a couple out of show at the Ritz, so so, so, so, he had just taken the police test to be a New York City cop and I'm saying, hey, man, how you doing what you cut your hair. He's like, yeah, I'm gonna be a cop. I'm like, really, yeah, I got shit. I was like I was coming over here, see if you wanted to change.

Zach Moonshine
That'd be a scary fucking cop man. You know, can you imagine? 

Sal Abruscato
Yeah, that's a thing in Brooklyn. He got singled out a lot of times too because he was the biggest guy. A lot of times he would get attacked first and fights and things like that. So he get picked on first because he'd be. You know, Brooklyn's a different kind of place compared to the rest of the country. Back then he would like them to go for the big guy first. You know. So one time I remember him showing up at the studio. 

He had a bloody ear because these cujines they we call them cujines they were the disco guys and they always fought against the rockers and they were trying to start with him. A guy threw a bottle that hit him in the ear. You know, like it didn't matter how big you are, you were there. There was some rough times of rough gangs in that neighborhood where we, where we were, where we lived over there, and a lot of, a lot of mobs is back then to over there. So there's all kinds of shit going on back then 80s in Brooklyn where we live. So that's the deal, dude. I hope this was informative and and and and fun filled the family, fun for all you guys here and folk out there taking your Xanax and your value before bed thank you! 

Zach Moonshine:
Sal hey man, thanks, alot. 

 Sal Abruscato:
Thank you for coming to me and having the balls to want to have me on your show too, because I, you know there's a lot of folks that just like don't want to like get like, you know. So yeah, so it was great, it was. I had a good time. 

Zach Moonshine
Yeah, dude, you know what? For any of those people out there that are listening because I know they're gonna fucking listen to this interview what do you got to say to them, man, the people out there that are trying to fuck with you, man? 

Sal Abruscato
Oh, the ones that are messing with me. I said plenty so far, but really just, just. You know, have a nice life and go fuck yourselves. You know I'm done, I've had enough. I've had enough. I'm just. You know I'm gonna try to move on. You know I have to. 

I can't just dwell in this nonsense. Unfortunately, I don't, you know, I might take a little longer to do anything. I may not do anything musically anymore. I have other business aspirations and you know me and the wife always have plans. 

So but I'll tell you one thing the only people that the only ones that have ever given me reason to always hang in there and come back and do things, is all the fans and all the friends that have always been positive and all the nice folks that have always had nice things to say and come up to the merch booth and talk to me. And that is really what it's always, because you want to know something, the outpouring I've got from the fans and plus, like all the fans that have been bought, like getting stuff from the pale horse merch site and supporting and I'm actually you know that's I said to my wife. I said you know, the industry may try to cancel me. But I'll tell you, we gotta the fans there. They're a cult, you know, and they show who they really who, they know who's who and they show it and they show the love and they're the only reason why I would ever consider to keep doing it. It's not the industry that that that shit the better long time ago. It's all the nice people I met along the way. 

You know that I took five minutes to talk to, or the hour and a half that you know I'm hanging out with you. You know, when it's just good vibrations, talking like you're hearing the real sound, this whole time I'm just I just tell it what it is. If it's purple, it's purple. If it's red, it's red, and that's that. I'm not gonna bullshit nobody. I don't care who you are, you know that's just how I roll. I come from a very salt of the earth background, you know. You know, and that's really it. I can't handle the bullshit. I can't handle Los Angeles. I can't handle the fake stuff. I can't. I can't deal with it. I'm a real deal doom guy. 

Zach Moonshine
You know, I just like to make music well, if you ever want to come play in fucking Tennessee, man, you fucking hit us up, dude, we'll fucking happen, man. 

Sal Abruscato
I'll come by myself with an accordion there you go all right, Zachy, stay in touch, my friend anytime, man all right, man, we'll talk to you later. You know, give me a shout thank you so yeah, happy holidays, by the way, and happy belated Thanksgiving everybody and yourself, and happy merry Christmas and, and god bless everyone, have a healthy life. Man, stay out of the drama. Youtube brother all right man be well, bye, bye, thank you talk to you later, man thank you, bye, bye there you have it, folks. 

Check out the full radio show podcast and interview here at this link: https://metaldevastationradio.com/thebeast/blog/24697/type-o-negatives-sal-abruscato-interview-2023-the-zach-moonshine-show